NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/applications/3469

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Path: inforamp.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (wjustice)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Amiga & AT in trouble in North America
Date: 18 Mar 1996 03:13:06 GMT
Organization: InfoRamp Inc., Toronto, Ontario [phone]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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X-Newsreader: THOR 2.22 (Amiga;TCP/IP) *UNREGISTERED*

Hi All!

It has recently come to the attention of an Amiga user who posted in
comp.sys.amiga.misc. that some very serious distribution and lack of Amiga
sales in North America have been going on; but he'd heard nothing of it until
today, March 17th, and wodered if "it had been filtered out by his provider"
or what the story was.

Unfortunately there appears to be a great amount of substance in the rumours
and accordingly reports of Escom's woes must be taken even more seriously.

While the thread is a spot difficult to follow, what with all of the excerpts,
cross-posts, etc., and the message is very long; the subject is serious.
Accordingly, besides having provided an answer in the comp.sys.mis. conf, I've
also decided to post this version to a few other conferences for comment, more
information, ideas, etc.


>Sub: Sam ReportThe Sam ReportMonday, March 4, 1996MIAMI, Florida-   The
>following disconcerting Amiga "news" is subjectto confirmation:It is common
>knowledge that Escom has been experiencing
financialdifficulties.

I've been discussing this subject, at length, since March 9th, on FidoNet and
elsewhere.  See the following two excerpts from my previous posts:

======================================================================
From: WILLY TAMM                Conference: 918 , +IGA       |60
  To: ALL                       Message: 918  Reply To: 187728
Subj: TIME TO SMELL THE ROSES   Date: 03-09-96  Time: 04:08
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to Smell the Roses Fellow Amiga Users.
This Cross-Post is very timely.  AmigaDos 4.0 is nice to talk about.
I recently witnessed at close hand how Wonder Computers, with six
outlets across Canada, and many tentacles spread in the United States,
after waiting for what, a year-and-a-half, were able to sell ten A4000T's.
Escom//AT talked about 10,000 units, maybe a few less. 320 were sold!
Escom is currently in considerable financial woes, no, I don't think that
we need to talk about advertising campaigns and new operating systems.

I love the Amiga; my family own 11!  I'm willing to speak up, speak out,
and put my money where my mouth is  (I lost hundreds of thousands of
Canadian dollars between 1992 and 1994, running Canada's largest Amiga
only store. I shut my doors and licked my wounds the week C= closed).

Who's got some realistic, economically sound ideas about how to salvage
our favorite platform?


Cross-Post by  Willy Tamm              [e-mail]


======================================================================
From: DEWEY MULLINS             Conference: 1473 , +IGA_INT   |60
  To: DEWEY MULLINS             Message: 4496  Reply To: 0
Subj: Sam Report 4/4/96         Date: 03-08-96  Time: 11:45
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MSGID: 1:207/205@fidonet 2232a801
Sub: Sam ReportThe Sam ReportMonday, March 4, 1996MIAMI, Florida-   The
following disconcerting Amiga "news" is subjectto confirmation:It is common
knowledge that Escom has been experiencing financialdifficulties.   The parent
company of Amiga Technologies posted aUS$30 million loss unexpectedly in
calendar 1995 and reports of itsdifficulties have been appearing ever since.
Here are the latest:- It was reported on the IRC today (source unknown) that
Escom hadclosed down the Amiga Technologies operation.  This is
totallyunconfirmed.Trading of Escom stock was suspended by the German Stock
Exchange onFriday.  The stock was reinstated today when an infusion of
capitalresurrected its status.  (Also unconfirmed).- The assembler of the
A4000Ts, QuikPak of Norristown, PA, has beenappointed the exclusive
"manufacturer's representative" of Escom inthe USA.   QuikPak will shortly
name three North American distributorsof the Amiga;  MicroPace, CEI of Miami,
and Software Hut.- SMG, who previously seemed to be the North American
distributorsfor Escom/AT, will continue as "service providers".   During
thebrief period that SMG had the exclusive distribution contract, only320
A4000Ts were actually sold (the estimate had been for 10,000).CEI is ordering
50 more A4000Ts from QuikPak under the newarrangement.The author bears no
responsibility for the accuracy of the above,just passing it on for what it's
worth.This has been the Sam Report from Miami for Genie.=END=
SR>- SMG, who previously seemed to be the North American distributorsSR>for
Escom/AT, will continue as "service providers".   During theSR>brief period
that SMG had the exclusive distribution contract, onlySR>320 A4000Ts were
actually sold (the estimate had been for 10,000).
After reading part of the above ---- I kinda figured all the "hype" about
overpriced 4 year old Amiga 4000 technology being sold like "hot cakes" was
somewhat overstated. The computer arena is a "dog eat dog" market no matter
what the virtues of a pc possesses. The Amiga does great video/multimedia but,
again that market has been invaded by the pc and mac powerpc systems. The
Amiga 4000 should have been rereleased at a little more than half of it's
current cost in order to remain competitive.
SR>- It was reported on the IRC today (source unknown) that Escom hadSR>closed
down the Amiga Technologies operation.  This is totallySR>unconfirmed.Sure
hope the totally unconfirmedreport of Amiga Technologies in the post above is
untrue. As for a new Amiga.......I'll wait until more U.S. hardware and
software companies start taking more of an interest in the computer.

Later --- Dewey




 | AmiQWK 2.9 - FREEWARE |
...


The next excerpt is typical of the sort of replies I got, what few there were:

======================================================================
From: WILLY TAMM                Conference: 918 , +IGA       |60
  To: JEFF GRIMMETT             Message: 188548  Reply To: 188284
Subj: RE: TIME TO SMELL THE ROS Date: 03-12-96  Time: 16:05
----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Hi Jeff!

 > In a message dated 09 Mar 96  04:12:00, Willy Tamm wrote:
 >
 >  WT> Time to Smell the Roses Fellow Amiga Users.
 >  WT> This Cross-Post is very timely.  AmigaDos 4.0 is nice to talk
 > about.
 >
 > [etc]
 >
 > Right at the start, your source is extremely weak.  The "sam
 > report" fellow is
 > CEI's lap dog, and there is no question in my mind that Amor
 > harbors hard
 > feelings towards Escom, and I suspect he's be happy to spread a lot
 > of false
 > rumors around.

 Jeff, I strongly suspected as much and had both myself and my son, both in
 the same room at our A4000/040's, each with our own slip//ppp accounts,
 both from different providers, trying to confirm facts, etc, before I posted.

 Used to get Amor's ;-) Sam Reports regularly, but our own "regular BBS"
 resources (Canada Remote Systems, Toronto, ON, Can) have sold to a national
 (in Canada) internet supplier, iStar and news is getting harder to come by
 in the last few months, as the transition is taking over.

 To iStar's credit; they are actively supporting CRS (whom they have bought
 out), during this transition with time//resources for remaining CRS staff to
 put out full install archives and the opportunity to take company time to
 produce heavily documented, ie. 36K manuals; all the foregoing for Amiga
only!
 They are also starting a NANET conference to replace the local Amiga conf,
 that will cease in a few more weeks.  Fido appears to be getting the axe as
 well; although still existing CRS'ers (sp??) are working on a few things.

 I am aware that fido is available through hundreds of smaller boards but for
 my 47-year old, I just don't want to start testing private boards, unless
 experienced Amigophiles can suggest to me.

 It's all further complicated by the fact that we are moving to New Mexico as
 soon as our house sells.  (My wife's an Air Force brat; at least on of our
 two sons will probably be the first after a missed generation of her siblings
 to serve, to follow in his grandfather's footsteps.

 When we are settled, is probably a better time to find a fido feed.  Hell,
 with my son(s)' help, I'd like to learn the job, make sure I don't mess up
 for people who'd be relying on me...but I'd love to serve as a poin; once
 we're in NM.


 > Fact is, SMG does not have an exclusive contract, just for
 > starters.  I would
 > say that if I placed a dozen phone calls, I could come up with
 > actual over the
 > counter sales of A4000T's that exceed the 320 number.

 In Canada, Wonder Computers were a good "real world" indicator of how the
 Amiga was doing (remember C= Canada was one of very few that were
 profitable?).

 I ran a large Amiga only dealership, fifteen minutes drive from C= Canada,
 in Scarborough ('burb of Toronto, ON) from late 1992 until C= closed in
 April 1994.  $1.4 million sales in 16 months, we got around.

 After I closed, the premises were vacant from April '94 until September'94,
 when, surprise, surprise..Wonder computers made their first expansion,
 outside of Ottawa, On., into my old store.  (I has no foreknowledge of this.)

 They reemployed the best of my former staff; brought in a "manager" from
 Ottawa, were a bit young, too cocky, too expensive... to make it.  Still,
 they gave it their all, and their own people lost as much as their "outside"
 creditors.

 What did they have 5, 6 stores - coast to coast?  I maintained very close
 relations with them and a few weeks before they went under; still waiting
 for my house to sell and therefore doing little else; I offered to come into
 their Toronto//Scarborough store (my old store) to provide engineering
 engineering consulting (get CSA stickers for A1200's...sort of like US's
 UL stickers),; I am a member of CSA and this gives me a few contacts to
 speed up things; and also to help put the personal touch back into customer
 service and provide some of the business acumen which I have learned in my
 47 years.

 The day that I was to start; they received ten (10) A4000 towers and shipped
 them out to same day, UPS, to their other stores.  These were the first that
 they had gotten. They needed one more; the only pre-sale in Toronto! No
 other sales!

 Jeff, my points in summary:

 - I also think something stinks in the roses I've asked people to smell.  But
   there are significant, believable points included.  I tried, with my son,
   within the limitations described above, to confirm sources - no luck.

 - Still, 10,000, hell make it 5,000, make it 2,000....etc. the predictions
   have not panned out.  Call around; you may well find more than 380 A4000T's
   sold.  But the amount sold (in fact the amount of stores with stock as per
   SMG's regular dealer listings) can only be compared to AT's predicitions;
   which Petro T. reconfirmed with a straight face at the World of Amiga in
   Toronto in Dec'95 is an exponential function (ie. as in take away place
   values from the ten thousand's column to maybe 1X 10 to the power of 3.

 - I think that in the excitment of OS4 and everything else; there should
   still be some serious investigating of realities.

 Finally!

 - Hell, I love you Americums :-).  I married one.  I want my dual citizenship
   children to spend the rest of their formative years in the U.S.of A.  I
   am a "registered alien" (What a stupid..stupid thing to call landed
   imigrants...like I have antennae???!), and I've lived 47 years in Toronto,
   next to the US boarder, grew up on US television, subscribe to only US
   newsmagazines.... I know that I will want to become an American citizen
   when the time comes.

                --BUT--

 - You Americans are sometimes so, so naive...

   Jimmy Carter: "They lied to me.  They told me they would not attack
   Afghanistan."

   US Amiga owners, circa May 1994 to early 1995: "Only CEI and Alex Amor
   can save us!  Escom, they just want the Commodore label.  C=UK and
   Mr. Plaisance (sp?) will not develop the platform.  They can only
   market games//A1200 bundles...."

   US Amiga owners, circa April 1995: "Amor has been full of hot air;
   he's misled us!"

 - Fortunately naivete is an ever so cute trait; (don't ever tell my wife
   I said that!)


Thanks for the words, Jeff.

I do take them seriously; but the facts which I have to date, suggest a bit
(hell no// a lot!) of hard-nosed investigation.

Sorry for the length of the post. I am rabid when it comes to Amiga's and
in particular when IMHO, the traditional American blinders <grin??> (if my
wife sees this post, I'll never live to touch another Ami keyboard or
rodent again).


Willy Tamm              [e-mail]






 | AmiQWK 2.9 - FREEWARE |
...

Now as to Asha Develder being confused...she usually takes up the majority of
the bandwidth on Fido?   See why I said that Americans are so naive? ;-)

No, I don't think that your provider was holding back anything....the Sam
Report is very much taken with a grain of salt, these days, in the USA.

It's just unfortunate that many reputable Amigaphiles, such as Jeff Grimmett
and Asha Develder employ that "cute" American trait of naivete and spend their
time blissfully bantering away, when just a little bit of cynicism helps view
the world for the not so nice, idealistic place that we's all like to imagine
that it is?

Now...are we going to believe the latest version, no minimum quantities, no
cash up front, etc....or are we going to dig a bit deeper.  Methinks a bit of
digging will help avoid using the past tense,very soon, when talking about the
Amiga.

The Surfer package, the "Walker", shown at Ceebit....reminds me of how C=
knew their days were numbered but convinced themselves, and a lot of
shareholders, creditors, dealers and users as to how the new CD32 was going to
change their fortunes, virtually overnight.

Petro T. of AT has been far less than honest during his speeches of late,
such as during the World of Amiga in Toronto, in Dec'95.

When AT's GM starts talking like a used car salesman, and Escom's creditors
demand recapitalization to match the extent of the previous year's losses
(remember IBM's rough years, their asset base caused no such panic).  Hell,
even Woody has taken Softwood to their new "Amiga Mall".  Read his
description of the hardware running their new web site.  Sure, a third party
investor walked in the door a few years ago and offered to code Final Writer
to Windows; Softwood themselves just stood by passively.

Well bully for them; at least they weren't wearing blinders; and they're still
around to do good things for the Amiga as well...if only a few of its users
would wake up...Smell the Roses...and start talking about common sense ways
to help the platform survive; rather than pie in the sky dreams of new O/S's
and holding on to their dollars until the Power Amiga comes out.  Stop
complaining about the cost of yet another FW upgrade; put your money where
your mouth is, or get used to trading obselete software and parts like a C64
owner.  Shell out a few dollars for British coverdisk magazines; find out
what's going on in Europe.

Team Amiga, etc....great P.R. but does anyone outside the Fidonet world know
about it?  No offence to the volunteers who've been working on it.  But
start charging dues;  use them to get known, noticed, etc.

Now, write me some nasty email, telling me what you think of me; and then get
your thinking caps on and let's make something happen!



>And now this on FidoNet crossposted by a very reliable person as confused as
>I

> From: ASHA DEVELDER                         Date: 03-14-96 18:50
>   To: ALL                                   Msg#: 42916
>Subj.: NORTH AMERICAN DISTRIBUTI
> Area: AMIGA

>        Does ANYONE know anything about this????

>        -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

>As of March 2nd. Quick Pak is the authorized representative of AT in the U.S.
>Quick Pak are now signing up distributors.

>As of today's date, Software Hut of Sharon Hill PA and Micropace of Champaign
>IL are the first distributors.  Both have Amiga computers in stock.  All
>units have a one year warranty directly through Quick Pak.

>It is hoped that no with requirement for minimum quantity or prepayment,
>together with having units physically in stock, will make the business of
>selling Amigas easier for dealers.

>        -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-


>    Asha.DeVelder.stand-in.asst.backup.type.co.moderator.person
> -*-INT:[e-mail]...Charter Member: Team AMIGA-*-


>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Can someone on usenet verify/explain/debunk this?  Has it been discussed and
>my provider filtered it out??? ;)

See my own crossposts and comments above!!

>To my German fellow Amigans:  Weiss ATGmbh bescheid ueber diese umstaenden???

willy tamm         [e-mail]